12-02-2010, 08:02 PM
Title: Why Don't We Tolerate Class Prejudice?
Author: Karlos Marxos, Primary Special Super Moderator of the Working Class Revolution (WCR) Forums
Date: 12 February 2010
In the aftermath of the events that took place here in the past three months involving the banning and expulsion of two members for making anti-worker comments and advocating anti-worker ideas, I'm sure many of you are thinking that it isn't such a bad thing to do, and thus, perhaps, find that such a rule is unfair or extreme. This begs a very serious question; "Why don't we tolerate class prejudice on WCR?"
Perhaps some of you are also thinking that this is a loaded question; it presumes that these individuals who were banned and expelled were most certainly class prejudiced. Whether they were or not isn't for us to decide; but they were most certainly banned for making class prejudiced statements and advocating anti-worker ideas.
But why does this matter?
It matters because this isn't RevLeft or some other Leftist message board; it's Working Class Revolution Forums. We support Working Class Revolution; that means workers independently organizing for their own liberation by and for themselves. Which means that workers' self-management — when workers have the power to make their own decisions concerning their workplace and other matters directly affecting them, unimpeded by external powers removed from themselves — is our goal. To put it simply; not everyone who considers themself to be a "Revolutionary Leftist" is welcome here. And the reason is in the name and in our preamble:
"We, the members of the Working Class Revolution (WCR) Forums, propose to form a more perfect instrument for the working class."
And if we are to succeed in this, we cannot allow anti-worker comments and ideas, and class prejudice to go unimpeded with impunity. The membership of WCR may not be based upon proletarian separatism — for that would not only be too restrictive, but extremely difficult, if not impossible, to enforce —, but we will not tolerate anything anti-worker or class prejudiced in nature.
Some still might be wondering what it is that these individuals did to get expelled for being anti-worker. One member said that they simply believe we have a strange definition of being against "workers self-management" if we think that they demonstrated opposition to it, even expressing concern that many of the other active users felt that placing time and energy in continuing to post here would be wasted if their accounts could be deleted on a whim for being "against workers self-management" if they support a means of self-management that may not be as "direct" as this administration personally supports.
Rest assured; we will be doing no such thing. The so-called, "wanton mass purging" of members for being labeled "anti-worker" is nothing more than an insidious lie; the members whose accounts were deleted in the aftermath of the expulsion of Drunkenproletariat and Reclaimed Dassein immediately discontinued usage of their accounts thereafter, and their accounts were deleted due to inactivity. So far, Drunkenproletariat and Reclaimed Dassein have been the only ones in the history of WCR to be expelled for such a violation of the rules, and many diverse discussions have taken place here — including the ever-so-popular thread The Marxist-Leninist Divide, started by the Stalin kiddies for whom WCR used to be their favorite haunt — without so much as a warning point given for anti-worker or class prejudiced statements. And if you can discuss ideologies and theorists which I consider to be overtly anti-worker and class prejudiced without getting a warning point from me; then the sky's the limit!
But I digress; Drunkenproletariat and Reclaimed Dassein, in particular, not only supported a means of self-management that was not as "direct" as that which we support here at WCR: they quite candidly and vociferously opposed workers' control, disparaged the state of the working class in the world today, as well as their intellectual capacity to control production and govern themselves (translation: working people are too stupid to manage their own affairs; an unwittingly class prejudiced statement), and argued that one-man management — which is more than indirect; but counter to workers' self-management — under a one-party state-owned and -managed economy is a necessary evil. Reclaimed Dassein even went so far as to essentially call workers' councils — a form of workers' self-management — counterrevolutionary.
If some of you are still thinking to yourselves that we have too strict a definition of precisely what being anti-worker or class prejudiced is, of precisely what workers' self-management is, or why it is that this isn't ok or shouldn't be tolerated, then ask yourselves this: "Why isn't it ok to be prejudiced against people for their religious beliefs, their lifestyle choices, their ethnicity, or their gender, much less their working class background?" If one were to state that someone lacks the intellectual capacity to manage their own affairs because they are a Jew; black; female; or homosexual, we would call them anti-semitic; racially prejudiced; sexist; or homophobic/heterosexist. None of which is tolerated here, and none of which anyone here would find tolerable on a forum of this nature. And we most certainly do not tolerate class prejudice for the very same reasons.
If after you've asked yourself this question you still think we're being too strict or that such conduct is ok; then maybe you would be more comfortable at a place like Red Stomp.
Author: Karlos Marxos, Primary Special Super Moderator of the Working Class Revolution (WCR) Forums
Date: 12 February 2010
In the aftermath of the events that took place here in the past three months involving the banning and expulsion of two members for making anti-worker comments and advocating anti-worker ideas, I'm sure many of you are thinking that it isn't such a bad thing to do, and thus, perhaps, find that such a rule is unfair or extreme. This begs a very serious question; "Why don't we tolerate class prejudice on WCR?"
Perhaps some of you are also thinking that this is a loaded question; it presumes that these individuals who were banned and expelled were most certainly class prejudiced. Whether they were or not isn't for us to decide; but they were most certainly banned for making class prejudiced statements and advocating anti-worker ideas.
But why does this matter?
It matters because this isn't RevLeft or some other Leftist message board; it's Working Class Revolution Forums. We support Working Class Revolution; that means workers independently organizing for their own liberation by and for themselves. Which means that workers' self-management — when workers have the power to make their own decisions concerning their workplace and other matters directly affecting them, unimpeded by external powers removed from themselves — is our goal. To put it simply; not everyone who considers themself to be a "Revolutionary Leftist" is welcome here. And the reason is in the name and in our preamble:
"We, the members of the Working Class Revolution (WCR) Forums, propose to form a more perfect instrument for the working class."
And if we are to succeed in this, we cannot allow anti-worker comments and ideas, and class prejudice to go unimpeded with impunity. The membership of WCR may not be based upon proletarian separatism — for that would not only be too restrictive, but extremely difficult, if not impossible, to enforce —, but we will not tolerate anything anti-worker or class prejudiced in nature.
Some still might be wondering what it is that these individuals did to get expelled for being anti-worker. One member said that they simply believe we have a strange definition of being against "workers self-management" if we think that they demonstrated opposition to it, even expressing concern that many of the other active users felt that placing time and energy in continuing to post here would be wasted if their accounts could be deleted on a whim for being "against workers self-management" if they support a means of self-management that may not be as "direct" as this administration personally supports.
Rest assured; we will be doing no such thing. The so-called, "wanton mass purging" of members for being labeled "anti-worker" is nothing more than an insidious lie; the members whose accounts were deleted in the aftermath of the expulsion of Drunkenproletariat and Reclaimed Dassein immediately discontinued usage of their accounts thereafter, and their accounts were deleted due to inactivity. So far, Drunkenproletariat and Reclaimed Dassein have been the only ones in the history of WCR to be expelled for such a violation of the rules, and many diverse discussions have taken place here — including the ever-so-popular thread The Marxist-Leninist Divide, started by the Stalin kiddies for whom WCR used to be their favorite haunt — without so much as a warning point given for anti-worker or class prejudiced statements. And if you can discuss ideologies and theorists which I consider to be overtly anti-worker and class prejudiced without getting a warning point from me; then the sky's the limit!
But I digress; Drunkenproletariat and Reclaimed Dassein, in particular, not only supported a means of self-management that was not as "direct" as that which we support here at WCR: they quite candidly and vociferously opposed workers' control, disparaged the state of the working class in the world today, as well as their intellectual capacity to control production and govern themselves (translation: working people are too stupid to manage their own affairs; an unwittingly class prejudiced statement), and argued that one-man management — which is more than indirect; but counter to workers' self-management — under a one-party state-owned and -managed economy is a necessary evil. Reclaimed Dassein even went so far as to essentially call workers' councils — a form of workers' self-management — counterrevolutionary.
If some of you are still thinking to yourselves that we have too strict a definition of precisely what being anti-worker or class prejudiced is, of precisely what workers' self-management is, or why it is that this isn't ok or shouldn't be tolerated, then ask yourselves this: "Why isn't it ok to be prejudiced against people for their religious beliefs, their lifestyle choices, their ethnicity, or their gender, much less their working class background?" If one were to state that someone lacks the intellectual capacity to manage their own affairs because they are a Jew; black; female; or homosexual, we would call them anti-semitic; racially prejudiced; sexist; or homophobic/heterosexist. None of which is tolerated here, and none of which anyone here would find tolerable on a forum of this nature. And we most certainly do not tolerate class prejudice for the very same reasons.
If after you've asked yourself this question you still think we're being too strict or that such conduct is ok; then maybe you would be more comfortable at a place like Red Stomp.